7 replies to this topic

[black maximus]

Hi i took maximus to a puppy preschool yesterday and the trainer/VET/Dog Behaviourist pointed out that the dominance theory in dogs has recently been proven to be wrong and it does not work. ( dominance theory is where  you establish yourself as the alpha pack leader by doing things like entering or exiting the door before the dog etc so the dog learns that you are the leader and he has to follow)
so i googled this and there are quite a few articles which support the above claim and others disagree.
just looking to get a perspective from forum members if you have any experience and or opinions on this and the reasons for that-
this is not meant to be a debate but i just want to know your experiences which may help me raise a well behaved puppy and establish a strong bond for life. thanks

[Kurt]

I believe that dogs operate with a pack mentality naturally and when the human follows these pack guidelines the dogs obey more naturally.

Just observe a pack of 4 or more dogs that have been together for awhile and you'll see what I mean.

Being the pack leader doesn't mean you need to dominate the hell out of your dog.It doesn't mean you beat it either. It's all about the way you do your corrections. You want to behave as naturally as possible in a way your dog will understand.

Next to myself, our Chocolate Lab Sammy is the alpha of our pack. If one of the other dogs gets out of line Sammy will just run over to them, put a paw on top of the neck of the offending dog and let out a blood curdling growl. Then he puts his paw down and just walks away like nothing happened. No showing of teeth or anything. Just the paw and the growl.

I have found that following general pack behavior with positive reinforcement techniques work the best.

trainer/VET/Dog Behaviourist

The person who operates the class is all three? That's strange, usually you are one of the three but not all three at the same time. I have found that most veterinarians possess little knowledge of canine behavior.

Of course there are all kinds of theories and opinions of what kind of training techniques work best.

[black maximus]

the message i get from this is I have to be the leader - a fair and firm one without dominating the puppy and certainly no aggressive expressions to correct behaviour- i think it is quite easy to train maximus as he loves food and treats work wonders with him.
as far as goin out of the door etc goes i will probably stop that but will try to train him to sit before the door opens and wait to be allowed outside rather than rushing out in a frenzy.
thanks Kurt for your reply- if any one else has any opinion please share

[Kurt]

By being a firm leader in the minds of the dog you are the dominant one. Which goes back to general pack behavior.
Now certainly you don't want to be rough on your pup. But there are subtle things you can do to show your dominance without expressing aggression. I never advise aggression with a pup or dog.

[Perry's Mom]

I would have to disagree with your dog trainer. From practical experience I have observed that dogs definitely have a "pecking order" or in dog speak a pack mentality. You are the leader of your dog pack. Dogs misbehave when not shown the correct way to manage situations. This is not done with aggression, it is done with authority. Your dog must know that you control food, the walks, the playtime, all the stuff they find important. This is ingrained by constant repetitive training. This is my opinion - just saying...

[LarryL]

I agree with Kurt. If you are training your lab continuously, the bond will develop. You do not need to be domineering all of the time. Praise goes a long way. And throw in a treat or two for good deeds and watch the bond develop. The National Geographic Channel did a study on this and found that dogs, like wolves, coyotes, etc., will obey the alpha male and naturally have structure in a pack, which is why packs are so strong. Just do the training that your pup needs and you will see a tight bond develop. My eight month lab will follow me anywhere and everywhere, but I train her daily. The bottom line, do what you feel comfortable doing and your lab will still adore you. There is a reason so many people own labs.

Larry from Dallas

[Kurt]

In working with dogs for many, many years I have identified that dogs come in two different varieties when it comes to training. One type is very responsive to treat based reward training and the other is praise oriented reward training.
Two of our dogs were treat rewarded during their training and the other two were praise oriented. By figuring out what type of dog you have makes training a lot easier.

[black maximus]

thanks for all the replies
Larry what you said makes sense
Kurt my puppy is definitely treat based he loves to eat